No. We’re saying you should look inward and address your own short-comings and poor behaviors before looking to blame external sources for your issues. No one is saying anything about what men should listen to.

No one said that.

I don’t think it was on purpose the Pope was just too frail to be in the same room as that much cringe. Frankly it was irresponsible of them to allow Vance anywhere near him.

so idk why guys struggle to understand that in and out is only going to do so much for most women

I can’t speak for anyone else but for me it’s not so much that I don’t understand it’s just a shot to the ego every time I think about it and it sucks that there aren’t a lot of options to get us both off at the same time (I know that’s stupid but I can’t help feeling that way. It’s some kind of lizard brain thing I can’t shut off). I was also with a woman who did get off on penetration for a long time and that was awesome so I sometimes find myself comparing what I’m missing out on now. Which again is shitty but I don’t know how to stop.

“And dismembered himself”

you don’t actually need community support outside of whatever actual social circle you [should] already have in life.

For me the interest was in having a group to talk with that was of the same mindset and knowing I wouldn’t have to deal with people complaining about their relationship issues or changing plans because of spouse/kids. Which is not something I have in life. I have individuals who I can talk with like that but if we get more than 3-4 of us together someone’s going to start bitching about relationship stuff.

Yeah though the vibe of that community was exactly as you described and not what I was looking for at all.

I remember being excited and thinking maybe I had found my people when I first heard about MGTOW thinking it would be dudes who realized maybe dating wasn’t for them and instead were just focusing on improving themselves. Then I looked at their subreddit and no, just a shitton of misogyny.

The bigger worry for me is that it seems a larger and larger amount of men are unable to sympathize with others.

Not unable, unwilling. It requires them to be ‘weak’ and concede that they may be part of the problem. I say this as a man that had to work through some of this shit when I was young.

So those who want to buy a house but can’t afford it are still fucked. Cool.

Same advice applies to dudes too TBH. We’d all be a lot better off if we figured our shit out before inflicting ourselves on each other and fucking us up even more.